From: David StevensTo: marxism-international Subject: M-I: Proyect on "Kibitzing" Date: Sunday, April 12, 1998 4:01 PM I'd like to thank Louis Proyect, who was kind enough to provide proof of what I said the other day. I said: -> -> It's representative ... that Louis not only identifies -> the struggle against reformism as "sectarian," but that his -> arguments are spurious ad-hominems regarding "organizers." I asked for representative samples: -> -> _ad hominem_ arguments, spurious analogies, or outright -> misrepresentation whenever he thinks they suit his purpose. Louis Proyect obliged: > > This David Stevens is some character...Here is a guy > whose total involvement in politics consists of working > on web pages ... He has absolutely no history of working > with grass-roots organizations fighting for social change. > He has never been a long-term member of a cadre organization > like the Sparts, who he sometimes professes an affinity for. > He is a kibitzer on the left. . That pretty much covers the bases, I think. The Sparts ought to protest that, since my solidarity with them was expressed conditionally; (that is, I said something like, "compared with a reformist slimeball like our Comrade Saint Louis Proyect"). In terms of my actual political affinities, I support the New Zealand journal "revolution," which recently produced its fifth issue. And I subscribed to _Living Marxism_ because the people attacking it on a.p.s.t. seemed to be the most craven of reformists ... as readers here at M-I can plainly see. ;-) Besides, I like Norden's Internationalist Group better than I like the Sparts anyway. The IG is clearly the more-Spartacist-than-Spartacist group, rather like Proyect is a more-liberal-than-liberal defender of Vance Hartke, the progressive mission of the US Army, and least-common-denominator popfrontism in the name of classless "grassroots". . Proyect made a similar rant against Ben Seattle. As is his custom, Cde Proyect errs in small details as he does in his grand outline. Louis wrote a similar (but even more ridiculous) diatribe last week in newsgroup news:alt.politics.socialism.trotsky asserting that some veteran trade unionists (with more years in organizing than Louis has on this planet) were lonesome middle-aged petty-bourgeois who had never done anything. (Louis is very concerned about doing something/anything, on account of needing to distinguish himself from all the other middle-aged petty-bourgeois white guys he spews against). Doing "something" -- even if that "something" is merely running around like a chicken with his head cut off -- is Comrade Proyect's top priority. He doesn't even care if he splatters blood and chickenshit around the barnyard. For Louis Proyect, like for the original revisionist Eduard Bernstein, "the movement is everything, the goal is nothing." _Ad hominem_ arguments are Louis' stock in trade. Even if Louis were more often correct in characterizing his opponents, would that make their _arguments_ any less valid? Of course not. These characterizations merely serve diversionary purpose: Louis didn't answer the _political_ questions occasioned by craven reliance on the capitalist state (Federal troops to Mississippi, blocs with "good" liberal defeatists like Vance Hartke). Personal evaluations _can_ be useful, especially when evaluating the probity and veracity of a testimonial or an assertion. In this respect, I invite list members to note the _chronic_ nature of Proyect's polemical dishonesty, since it bears on matters of his direct testimony and assertion. (In other words, "get used to not believing" this guy). Those already acquainted with Comrade Saint Louis Proyect (as he's affectionately known on the Trotsky newsgroup) already know to look out the window themselves whenever Louis claims that it's raining outside. As a matter of policy, I advise readers not to rise to any McCarthyesque baits such as Louis offered Ben: > > We don't even know your real name. The same goes for any other stuff Louis trolls for, usually alleging a search for "credentials." Proyect has something of a sliding scale for what he calls "credentials"; ask Bob Malecki. ;-) I don't trust Louis Proyect as far as I can throw him. I don't even trust him as far as _he_ can throw _me_. Louis isn't the "one man sect" we termed him last year in the Trotsky newsgroup; instead, he is (as Ken MacLeod aptly observed) more of a "one man workers state," and a rather badly deformed one, at that. Comrade Proyect doesn't take well to workers democracy; he tends to be as shrill as Robert Malecki (but with better spelling). Proyect has offered physical violence to opponents, including T.Smith of New York and D.Stevens of San Francisco, just because that's the kind of guy Louis is. On my part, I have offered to meet Proyect at SFO airport, where I promise to sell him a subscription to _Living Marxism_ magazine. (It is all to easy for persons to make such empty threats remotely. I expect Comrade Proyect's visit will be warm and memorable). But this shows what Ken MacLeod was talking about. Louis' only consistency is inconsistent hypocrisy. Proyect invites Ben Seattle to "step away from that computer terminal and interact with the working-class." Proyect, of course, doesn't hold forth to a dozen Net forums merely by use of an abacus. And he's expressed the view that "real" workers are only in "Kentucky or North Carolina," so he's probably not the one to ask about interactions with the working class. By his own standards, Louis Proyect is a failure. After thirty years of fruitless effort, all he has to show for it is his one-man sect -- oops, I mean his one-man deformed workers state -- plus thirty years of wasted effort. But of course, Louis is dishonest to pretend even that his own idea of revolutionary activity involves "going to Africa and teaching SWAPO how to vote." Naw. It consists of sitting his middle-aged spread down at a computer terminal and spamcasting forth his shaggy stories of going native in Peru (which he hasn't done) and going to Africa to teach SWAPO how to vote (which he also hasn't done). Somewhere in there, Commissar Leader Proyect will also find time to establish a "grassroots" movement among the 0.0000001% of the planetary population that reads his words on these commie Internet forums. After all, it's hard to reach the "real" workers of Kentucky or Carolina, when you're parked in a white-collar administration job at a bourgeois university in the middle of Manhattan. - David Stevens --- from list marxism-international@lists.village.virginia.edu ---