Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 18:44:10 -0700 To: marxism-international@jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU From: Ben SeattleSubject: M-I: (POF) Reply to Yoshie/Carrol -- Complexity/ Consciousness First I would like to thank Yoshie Furuhashi and Carrol Cox for their efforts and patience in trying, with me, to tackle such topics as these in such a forum as this. Unfortunately, I am working under considerable time constraints. I would, first of all, like to dispell any notion that my online political work is my first priority at this time. It is not. My first priority is to avoid getting fired from my job. This is because it rains a lot in the region where I live and my computer will not work very well if it gets soggy--so it therefore becomes necessary that I keep a roof over my head. I was recently given "the talk" at work about coming in late and/or missing time--and find it necessary to cut back slightly on my political work via e-mail and the web. What I suggest is that I give a short reply now (which may be unsatisfactory in several respects) and that Yoshie and Carrol then respond to indicate what particular areas they would most like me to further address. That way we may be able to advance this discussion a little bit at a time. This has another advantage over a long explanation: when I do try to explain things at greater length--I invariably spend disproportionate space on the portions of my arguments that are already obvious and tend to skimp on those areas where my reasoning or logic is unclear. First, I would like to thank Yoshie for taking the time to read the newly shortened version of "The Self-Organizing Moneyless Economy (S.O.M.E.) Hypothesis". Very few people have read it and so Yoshie is one of the first. ================================ Ben replies to Yoshie ================================ Yoshie: I think you ought to give this question more thought. After your reply to my inquiry on chaos/complexity theory, I read your work on your website closely. It appears that your theory of how communism (which you characterize as cooperative anarchy) works depends crucially on the "consiciousness of the masses," ... This key term in your theory, it seems to me, is undertheorized. Ben: Unfortunately it is difficult for me to respond to this kind of comment. Actually I have given these matters a great deal of thought. One difficulty may be in expressing the essential concepts in a concise and comprehensible way. I think that it would be helpful if we try to keep in mind the distinction between the ideas that I am working to advance--and my skills or abilities in arguing them or making them clear. I suspect that it will take a period of time and the effort of many people to help clarify the content in the SOME hypothesis. I can express these views as best I can by myself. But to bring them to a larger audience and demonstrate how humanity can organize its economic, cultural and political life without reliance on either the market or central planning--is a fairly large task. I will not be able to do it alone. I am experimenting with methods to make it easier for readers to understand my arguments. For example, I have put up a web page for some of the most common terms that I use. The working definition of "consciousness" that I use can be found at: www.pix.org/cyberLeninism/terms.htm#consciousness There I define consciousness as follows: "The most undefinable of all phenomena to be found in nature, consciousness represents the only means by which the future can affect the present. We can define it, for our purposes, as the recognition and grasp of principles with the power to transform. Or, in other words, consciousness is the process of collecting, concentrating and refining information for the purpose of transforming it into a guide to action." Of course it is unclear whether such a definition as this is helpful. What might be better is if Yoshie cites a *particular example* that I use in the SOME hypothesis (or comes up with an example of her own)--and challenges me to illustrate how the consciousness of the masses could be brought to bear on some issue of economic, cultural or political life which is dealt with in a very fucked-up way under the capitalist system. Otherwise this discussion would be left at a level of abstraction where none of us might be able to understand what the other is talking about. There is also the original (ie: very lengthy) version of the SOME hypothesis available at my site--but it is somewhat doubtful that this would help because at least 80% of the most valuable parts of it have already been concentrated in the short version that Yoshie has read. The lengthy version does include a more detailed description of how access to the finite resources of the mass media is likely to develop in a world of intense competition between ideas and unlimited access to the net. In this sector, perhaps more than many others, the role of the masses and their consciousness would likely manifest itself in particularly striking form (see "Censorship of the Mass Media" in Appendix A of "cRed-80"). Yoshie: >To say that "matter spontaneously tends to develop in the >direction of consciousness" is not mysticism but materialism. That statement might be charazterized as "materialist," but does it belong to the materialism of a *marxist* kind? Not every materialism is marxist, you know. Ben: Consistent materialism, as practiced by the workers and oppressed, inevitably leads to Marxism--because only Marxism conforms to their material interest in living in a society without exploitation and with a very high productivity of labor. Yoshie: After reading your work at your website, I was struck by the frequency with which you use analogies between society and nature as well as those between human beings and computers. But you never seem to get around to *arguing*, instead of just asserting, *why* such analogies are valid when considering questions at hand. Ben: All analogies have limitations of one kind or another. The value of analogies is not to "prove" a concept but to help explain it. Any idea or concept has to *stand on its own merit* but well-chosen analogies can help to guide our thinking along lines that will lead us to discover the concrete arguments that we seek. If the SOME hypothesis is correct, then there will eventually be discussion about it and explanation which does not involve such heavy use of analogies. Yoshie: You seem to assume that your analogies will be accepted by your readers without your explaining why we should. I, for one, find such analogies to be of limited significance. Ben: Actually I do not assume that readers will accept this hypothesis blindly. Rather, I am interested in throwing this hypothesis into public discussion where it will eventually sink or swim based on how well it corresponds to life. The term "hypothesis" itself, suggests an idea that should neither be accepted nor rejected quickly--but which it is better to examine carefully, over a period of time, in the light of facts and arguments drawn from the world. I do not know to what degree (if any) that any of my views may be original. Quite possibly, there is little that is new in the SOME hypothesis. But personally, I am confident that the SOME hypothesis (or some set of ideas which are more or less equivalent) will eventually find widespread acceptance within the progressive community because it has the validity of objective truth. I do not know if this will take five years or twenty-five years. My confidence comes from the way in which I formulated this hypothesis: I got rid of what was wrong or absurd and took a look at what was left. I started by eliminating everything that was in contradiction to Marx's concise description of a communist society: "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs". This meant that I threw out the idea of an economy based on *exchange* (commodity production, money, capital, wages, etc). I also threw out the idea of the entire economy and political system being under the thumb of a *single point of control* (an idea that I had concluded, over a lengthy period of time, represented a bastard version of communist society that most likely originated in the 1930's as Stalin put his ideological stamp on the thinking of a great many progressive people). I also made my best effort to include the impact of the coming *communications revolution* which, I concluded, will greatly speed up and facilitate everything. ================================ Who will control the factories ? ================================ The basic idea that I am trying to get across seems (to me) to be quite simple. In a communist society, there will be no "trade" (ie: exchange) but there will be "trade-offs". For example: producing a certain product (in a certain way at a certain location) may raise the standard of living of a group of people in a certain way--but might also either put stress on or damage in some way an ecosystem. Some kind of decision must be made on whether (and how) to go forward with this production. Such a decision will (ultimately) affect everyone--and so will not everyone wish to participate (in one way or another) in making such a decision ? But how would this be done with no market and no central authority ? The communications revolution will clearly play a big role here--but that does not answer all questions. For example, who will *control* a factory ? The conclusion which I stumbled across is that *everyone* will control the factory--but that it is inevitable that some will control it more than others. This may evoke George Orwell's "Animal Farm" to the minds of many readers (the new bourgeois class in "Animal Farm" changes the slogan "All animals are equal" to "All animals are equal--but some are more equal than others") but it is nonetheless inevitable. So *who* has the greatest amount of control over the factory ? The answer I stumbled across is that the question of *control* is (from the point of view of theory) indistinguishable from *labor* --because making decisions is a form of work. Hence, control of the factory will be on the basis of people's *abilities* (ie: see the most famous of all quotes by Marx above). Hence the workers at the factory would have an enormous degree of control over the factory--what it produces and under what conditions, etc (because they have the power to work *faster or slower*--or more or less enthusiastically--and this gives them enormous leverage). But this would not be the end of the story--because control of that same factory would be *distributed* (via chains of consumption and production, as well as the media and the general consciousness of the masses--who have the power to [a] *consume or boycott* the factory's products and [b] *supply or embargo* the factory's needs as well as the power to [c] create public opinion and influence others) extremely widely, eventually being distributed to the entire population. It may not be apparent, but I have actually approached this entire question in a very cautious manner. My efforts to describe the result may look "wild" (to some) but it is my view that eventually the SOME hypothesis will be considered to be *obvious* and relatively little credit will be due to me for having somehow stumbled into it. I suspect that part of the reason that many have trouble with the SOME hypothesis is either a lack of knowledge of some of the principles involved or various prejudices which may exist. Another factor may be my idiosyncrasies (or the limitations of my abilities) as a writer to illustrate an idea which may appear confusing or self-contradictory to some. Some people like my writing style and some get fed up with it very quickly. But these barriers can only be temporary. The main thing, in considering such a hypothesis, is to neither accept it nor reject it in a knee-jerk fashion but to weigh, over a period of time, the various facts and arguments that relate to it. If my writing style upsets many people (as seems to be the case) then, eventually, others who are more adept (or less clumsy) will take the principles of the self-organizing moneyless economy to a wider audience. Yoshie: Moreover, such analogies can be quite dangerous, in that they tend to naturalize or instrumentalize human agency. Ben: I am a little slow in picking up on your meaning. If you are refering to theories of "social darwinism" or various theories used by fascist regimes in the past or capitalist apologists today--then my reply is that the lessons learned from the study of nature (or computers) would be very different depending on whether the class which is learning from all this is the proletariat or the bourgeoisie. Yoshie: You seem to treat all kinds of complexity similarly. Nature, society, individual human beings, and computers may be said to be all very "complex," but are they "complex" in the same way? If you think so, isn't your theory of "complexity" rather too simple? Ben: No, I do not think that everything is complex in precisely the same way. It is a fundamental contradiction that everything in the universe is both "the same" and "not the same" (ie: "this" is "that"). There are similarities *everywhere* but all phenomena without exception possess their own individual features and identity. I find the similarities between phenomena to be fascinating. But then the differences between phenomena are fascinating also. In fact, we generally define the differences between phenomena in terms of their similarities and we define the similarities between phenomena in terms of their differences. And this is probably about as much as I can say on this topic without facing accusations of wading hip-deep in bullshit ;-) ================================ Ben replies to Carrol Cox ================================ Carrol Cox: Yoshie has a point here. My original objection was sort of knee jerk, and probably overstated. Nevertheless the assertion that change spon- taneously or even tendentially moves towards complexity (and that com- plexity equals consciousness) is highly debatable. Ben: Well a couple of points might be helpful to bring up here. One is simply that we are all human and that we are engaged in tasks that are not necessarily easy. This makes it inevitable that, to a degree, we are all going to experience a certain amount of frustration. What this means is that we are engaged in a struggle which not only presents us with formidable intellectual tasks--but also represents a struggle which has an emotional dimension. Now I have no problem with Carrol Cox characterizing my views as "sheer nonsense" or "mysticism". This is because it is clear to me that Carrol Cox is sincere and understands *in practice* how to work to build this forum. And because he works to build this forum, Carrol has no problem recognizing that his original objection was probably a bit overstated. What complicates the matter is that we are working in an arena in which others are present who do not understand, in practice, how to build the forum. For example, less than two hours after Carrol's original criticism of my passage on matter and consciousness--we have a posting from Andrew Wayne Austin--who gets fired up about this and sees it as his ticket to enhance his prestige on this forum. The first point is that there is a world of difference between having my views characterized as "mysticism" by Carrol Cox--and having my views characterized in the same way by Andrew Wayne Austin. The difference is that Carrol is concerned above all with helping to build this forum as a place for useful work while Austin has another set of priorities. (If the utter bankruptcy of Austin's intellectual arguments are difficult to follow or dissect--Austin's real priorities are proven by his post of 1:51 am on June 18--which can clearly be seen to have no other possible motive than to provoke me into a non-productive flame war.) But we have to live (and create useful work) in a world of Andrew Wayne Austins and Robert Maleckis. And this means that we need to learn how to conduct our work with *sufficient precision and skill* that those, like Austin and Malecki (who invariably come across as aggressively clueless--because they have not yet developed a strong sense of revolutionary integrity and humility) will find very little room for their annoying and disruptive antics. As we sort out our political contradictions, and undertake serious work to assist our class to organize itself--people such as Austin and Malecki may eventually learn how to combine their efforts more productively with others. And we wish to encourage this. But even then--there will be no shortage of other aggressively clueless people who will find themselves attracted to such an open forum as this. And we must learn methods of work that are fairly resistant to disruption by the clueless. ================================ The first line of defense ================================ Our *first line of defense* against agressively clueless disrupters (and against confusion in general) is that we must recognise *in practice* that the words we use are inevitably very clumsy instruments. For example I can mean one thing when I say (as I did): "Matter spontaneously tends to develop in the direction of consciousness" and someone else can interpret my remarks to mean something quite different than what I intended. And such occurances are not uncommon at all--but on the contrary happen all the time. For example, an acquaintance of mine (who did not know my politics) once had read Marx's "Communist Manifesto" and he assured me that Marx believed that under communism--women would be forced to have to have sex with any man who wanted to have sex with them. And this acquaintance of mine was a very intelligent man who had responsibilities that included keeping planes from crashing (don't think about that one too much the next time you fly). Similarly, aspects of the theory of evolution are sometimes misinterpreted. I once saw a tract by the Jehovah's Witnesses which showed a car wrapped around a telephone pole. The caption read: "Evolutionists say that living things improve as the result of accidents. But accidents damage things and make them worse." Now my statement on the spontaneous development of matter can be interpreted in different ways. If you take a wet glob of clay, sterilize it and place it in a sterile environment--and then wait and watch for something to happen overnight--you will likely find yourself disappointed. On the other hand, if you take a wet glob of clay 12 thousand kilometers in diameter, place it in a favorable environment about 8 light-minutes from a reliable source of light and heat, and wait about 4 billion years--you would have much better odds of observing something interesting. If anyone were to interpret my remarks to mean the former instead of the later--then, yes, my views would appear to be utter nonsense. And it is inevitable that in discussing matters such as this--that problems of interpretation emerge. And this is why it is very useful for us to train our minds to be cautious in coming to conclusions about what someone means when using a particular phrase--because we are constrained to use words--and words are, indeed, very clumsy instruments. And this is also why we should use these clumsy instruments with as much precision as we are capable--and also take care, in repeating the arguments of others, that we are careful to observe distinctions. For example, I have never said that "complexity equals consciousness". When Carrol sums up my view in this way--he is using a form of "shorthand". Carrol knows what I really mean and I know that Carrol knows what I really mean, etc. But the problem is that we have (and will continue to have) an abundance of aggressively clueless people who will be very much inclined to seize upon any errors that anyone makes and distort and magnify these errors to the best extent of their ability. So what I ask of all of my responsible critics (and I intend on eventually having a large number of responsible critics) is that they should show solidarity with me (against the aggressively clueless--who are drawn to attack anything that has life and vitality) by making an effort to summarize my actual views in as accurate a manner as practical. The self-organizing properties of matter are manifested in nearly all physical phenomena worthy of study. We ourselves are products of the self-organizing properties of matter. It escapes me how any consistent materialist could attempt to deny this since the *only* alternative explanation would be either a series of *extremely unlikely* occurances or divine intervention from some outside source. It is certainly true that such phenomena are only *poorly understood*. But this does not make such phenomena any less real. To people unfamiliar with the basic concept, the idea that forms of matter tend to organize themselves probably sounds rather strange. Our everyday life tends to lead us to think of things differently. If a bunch of bricks are to form a building, some outside agency must stack them up. Such bricks certainly will not stack themselves. Darwin's theory of evolution (probably the best and most interesting example of the self-organizing properties of matter) most likely also struck many as strange when it was first proposed. The mechanism of heredity was not known until later (ie: the experiments with peas by the monk named Mendel) and the *immense length* of the geological record had only recently been discovered and was probably not all that widely appreciated. "Common sense" would hold that ducks do not give birth to lions any more than lions give birth to ducks--so how could all the plants and animals in god's creation create themselves from one another ? ================================ Artificial life and the mathematics of self-organization ================================ The *explanation* for the self-organizing property of matter most likely will eventually be understood in terms of the operation of mathematics too complex to be understood in our lifetimes. The tendency of closed systems of matter to tend toward *disorganization* (ie: increase their entropy) is well understood and extremely easy to demonstrate mathematically. The opposite principle, of pockets of matter within closed systems decreasing their entropy--is not understood and, to my knowledge, still has no generally agreed upon name. All the same--the phenomenon exists within and around us in every direction that we might care to look. Some of the work to understand the principle of self-organization is quite interesting and I list some references in the appendices to this letter. John von Neumann (a brilliant mathematician in spite of being a very nasty cold-warrior) developed the concept of cellular automata around 1950. John Conway, in the mid-60's developed a simplified example of a cellular automata (known to most computer nerds as "the game of life") in which simple rules governing the existence of cells on a large checkerboard-like arrangement would result in forms which move about and reproduce themselves. [A minor digression introduces itself here:] A man by the name of Edward Fredkin (well-known in cellular automata circles) has proposed that the universe itself consists of something like a cellular automata. Such an idea is strongly related to the idea that there is an ultimate "bottom layer" to physics (ie: atoms may be composed of electrons and protons which may in turn may be composed of quarks--but at some point you reach "the bottom" where nature more or less holds up a sign that says: "the buck stops here"). For example, Stephen Hawkings (the "Brief History of Time" guy) has suggested that nothing may be smaller than what he called the Planck length--which is expressed mathematically as a decimal point followed by too many zeros. Now I am not too certain about any of this myself since it would seem to contradict my understanding of dialectical materialism (which, admittedly is rather weak) that everything in the universe contains internal contradictions and is therefore subject to division. For example Lenin, in 1908, seems to have predicted that the electron would be split: "The electron is as *inexhaustible* as the atom, nature is infinite ..." (see "Materialism and Empirio-Criticism", Chapter 5, section 2 "Matter Has Disappeared"). Since we will never see a debate between Lenin and Hawking on this matter--I will leave it to anyone on this list who may understand either physics or dialectical materialism better than I do--to clarify this. [end of digression] Around 1989 or 1990, a man by the name of Tom Ray developed "Tierra", a set of mathematical algorithms that could be implemented on a computer in which randomly arranged information would organize itself into entities that would consume one another, mutate, evolve, form ecosystems and in general possess many of the characteristics that we associate with biological life. There is an entire field of study devoted to such matters, known, appropriately enough, as "artificial life" that is closely related to the field of complexity and is associated with the work of the Santa Fe Institute. Now I will not claim to be highly knowledgeable about these fields of study but I have been following them for a long time and I am quite comfortable, at this point, with the basic concepts. Around 1972 I first heard an acquaintance of mine who (unlike myself) was quite sharp in mathematics tell someone else that a large enough cellular automaton, with a sufficiently robust set of rules and sufficient time--would eventually evolve to consciousness. I remember being somewhat struck at the time by this person's utter boldness and confidence in asserting such a thing. "Even if it were true", I said to myself at the time, "how could he know ?" But that was a long time ago. I have given a lot of thought to such matters since then and about 10 or 15 years later concluded that my acquaintance had been correct. And some of these kinds of ideas, which are very powerful and which I am very comfortable with, more or less found their way into the SOME hypothesis, although it was not necessarily my aim to try to incorporate "the principles of complexity theory" into my work. But if many people are not comfortable with these principles--I doubt that this would be too much of an obstacle to understanding my views. My views seem (to me anyhow) to be quite simple. Nor will it be necessary for humanity to fully understand the nature of complexity or self-organization before a fully communist economy and political system could be built. All we really need to do is to organize things *better* than under capitalism--which, fortunately, is a much simpler undertaking. Nor is it necessary for communists, today, to understand the mathematics of self-organization. All we really need to grasp is that our primary role is to *assist our class to organize itself*. This means that we need to learn how to perceive, understand and link up with already existing motion and help to coordinate and direct the immense reservoir of revolutionary energy, which already exists, towards the goal of ending bourgeois class rule. No mathematics is required for this--just an understanding that people strive, at whatever level they are capable, to achieve their material interests and that the highest material interest of workers is their common interest as a class. Everything else will flow from this. And in the conclusion of chapter 6 of "How to Build the Party of the Future" I give an example of this--drawn from life--where I talked about how our organization learned how to link up with the objective (if low-level) struggle of the shipyard workers. ================================ Steven Jay Gould ================================ Carrol Cox: In another of your posts, replying I think to Andrew, you characterized one of his arguments as a simplified version of Gould's. It was Gould in particular that I had in mind when I objected that consciousness was contingent, and while your reply to me was partly satisfactory, I now believe that you ought to reply to Gould's arguments rather than to simplified versions of those arguments. Ben: Who is Stephen Jay Gould ? -------------------------- For readers unfamiliar with Stephen Jay Gould, he is a professor at Harvard who has written a number of well received books, mostly dealing with the evolutionary record. Gould's primary accomplish is probably his role in championing the theory of "punctuated equilibrium" which he worked to develop with a friend when they were both graduate students. The theory of punctuated equilibrium holds that evolution does not proceed via steady, continuous and gradual change but would be better described as periods of equilibrium or slow change interspersed with periods of rapid or "catastrophic" change. As such the basic concept should be quite familiar to students of marxism, who work toward similar periods of change, called revolutions, in the poltical sphere. Gould's other main accomplishment is a contribution to a popular understanding of evolution in his book "Wonderful Life", which described how fossil evidence from the Burgess Shale in the Canadian Rockies proves that nearly every major form of life on earth (including the chordate ancestors of primates) had representatives 550 million years ago in the period that is now being called the Cambrian explosion. The significance of this is that this period took place not that long after the first multi-celled forms of life came into existence--which means that all the incredible diversity of life of earth created its basic prototypical forms in only a relatively short period of time. The only evidence for this is the Burgess Shale and Gould's book was the channel thru which knowledge of this incredible discovery reached the general public. Gould was recently voted the most popular professor at Harvard and is, I believe, something of a leftist in a vague sort of way. I assume this anyhow from reading a review of a book by Paul Gross and Norman Levitt titled: "Higher Superstition: The Academic Left and Its Quarrels with Science". The reviewer, Michael Ruse, wrote an article asking: "Do Attacks from the Academic Left Pose the Threat of Cultural War ?" and stating that "Gross and Levitt cannot be unaware that some of the strongest critics of science have come from the ranks of science itself. ... How can they be unaware that Gould is a major advocate of the science-as-cultural-constructionist movement ?" (The Sciences, Nov-Dec 1994, Vol 34, Nbr 6, page 39). Stephen Jay Gould's views on the predictablility of evolution -------------------------------- I have never actually read much by Gould, other than browsing thru "Wonderful Life" while standing up in a bookstore and an article in the October 1994 issue of Scientific American (which I wanted to find for this post--but realized is securely hidden within the enormous chaos of the papers I accumulate--and which I am patiently waiting to "self-organize" themselves ;-). But I am familiar enough with Gould's views to consider them somewhat misleading in the sense that has emerged in the criticism made by Carrol Cox. Gould's objections to the concept of "predictable evolutionary progress" may possibly be better understood as a reaction against grossly simplified views of evolution which have been used for (sometimes reactionary) political purposes. My friend Joćo has greatly helped out by locating a relevant passage from "Wonderful Life" and from a criticism of it by Alex Callinicos in "International Socialism". The passage concerns a thought experiment which Gould calls "replaying life's tape". In this passage, after describing how you would "press the rewind button" to go back a few billion years or so, and start over--Gould asks the question: "What could we then say about the predictability of self-conscious intelligence? or of mammals? or of vertebrates? or of life on land? or simply of multicellular persistence for 600 million difficult years?" But Gould is asking this question in the wrong way and this leads to confusion about two entirely different things. 1) What is correct is that the *particular path* which life takes is extremely unpredictable. For example if the asteroid which hit the earth 65 million years ago and wiped out the dinosaurs--had been off course by about 3,000 kilometers--it would have missed earth entirely and the course of evolution would have been extremely different. Intelligent life might still have evolved--but without the ascendency of mammals--the pace of development might have been slower--and it might have been that the explosion of brain size and related abilities happened among velociraptors instead of among mammalian primates. Similarly, there are many factors (besides the asteroid) that would make a huge difference in which group of plants or animals would win the competition for a particular niche--or even for which niches became available to be filled. And these are factors which are not predictable by their nature (this gets into chaos theory and the "flapping wings of a butterfly" principle--which I will not get into here). 2) What is predictable (or, at any rate, closer to being predictable) is the *final outcome* in a certain rough sense. Intelligence tends to be a trait favorable to survival among animals that move around and make decisions concerning their activity. It is logical to assume that in an environment that would be favorable to intelligent decision-making--that this ability would develop given enough time. A simpler experiment might illustrate this better. Throw a spinning basketball over the fence into an empty basketball court. The ball is going to bounce around on a path that will not be possible to predict. The final resting location of the ball will, for this reason, not be possible to predict either (assumming that the court is level). But ask yourself the following question: what will be the final distance between the ball and the court ? It will be zero. That much will be very predictable. Of course the question of how many times consciousness would emerge if Gould's thought experiment was run 1,000 times--is not as simple as the basketball experiment--and is unanswerable. I would guess the answer would be "lots". But it is not a requirement that consciousness emerge 1,000 times out of 1,000 (or even 100 times out of 1,000) in Gould's thought experiment to grasp that the tendency of matter to develop, to self-organize, to *evolve*, exists. As we deal with groups of people, with the development of economic and political systems, we must, at some level, take into account the tendency of such phenomena to organize themselves. Capitalism organized itself. Karl Marx described this process in great detail. Starting with trade between isolated tribes, and moving, over thousands of years to the production of commodities and the creation of the universal money-commodity and the development of capital and a class, the bourgeoisie, which serves the development of capital--the system of capitalism developed without any divine outside force directing everything and laying down a plan. Rather, central banks, and all the rest, came into existence as they were required to meet the needs of capital. The existence of capitalism, as a product of spontaneous development, is one of its great strengths. This is one reason that it was able to emerge and overwhelm Lenin's revolution in the 1920's (althou to describe matters in this way would be to oversimplify them somewhat). As the proletariat awakens, overthrows bourgeois rule and embarks on building an economic and political system that does not necessitate exchange and the market--it will also seek to exploit the tendency toward self-organization. And for Marxists, the concept of self-organization should not be difficult to grasp--because at its heart it is nothing other than *dialectical materialism* -- the theory that everything *develops on the basis of its internal contradictions*. ================================ Inevitablity of progress ? ================================ Carrol Cox: You need to cleanse your position of even the whiff of 19th century doctrines of the inevitability of Progress. Marx's one-sentence answer to the question of What is? was not "Ever Upward" but only one word: Struggle. No guarantees that the end is not simple collapse. Ben: Carrol and I have very different views on this. It is nonsensical theoretical views on the nature of communism that lead so many to be so pessimistic as to whether we can be certain we will ever see it here on the planet earth. I would like to break this question down into two different questions: the general and the particular. The "general" question concerns whether it is inevitable that capitalism will be succeeded by communism. And the "particular" question concerns my own estimate that this will happen roughly mid-way thru the next century (plus or minus two or three decades). My views on the particular question are a result of my estimate of the speed at which the infrastructure of the revolution in digital communications will be laid--and the effect that this will have on the cultural and political spheres of society and their effect on the class struggle. My feeling is that it would not be useful to discuss the particular question right here and right now--and that instead it would be better to focus on the general question. Once we develop a rough consensus on that--we would be more ready to move on to the next step. My argument on the general question--makes use of the concept of labor productivity and the principle of "information wants to be free". Simply put, the development of labor productivity hinges on the free flow of information. Maximum productivity demands that the worker have *a clear picture of every factor* which might relate to what he does--what he produces, how he produces it and why he produces it. This creates a problem however, for capitalist relations of production. A very important factor in the organization of production under capitalist relations--is the need to intensify the rate of exploitation of the workers, which we can conceive (roughly) as the ratio between the worth of what workers create and what they get paid. If the workers know this and see this principle in operation, however, this tends to lower their morale and undermine their enthusiasm for working hard. This factor becomes increasingly important as the nature of production becomes more complex and the work performed becomes less subject to supervision (or easy measurement) and more subject to the motivation of the worker. Hence the capitalists have a built-in need to keep the workforce ignorant of the increase in exploitation. But to keep the workforce ignorant about such a major factor as this--requires keeping them ignorant of a whole host of other factors. Simply put--the class struggle in society will inevitably tend to restrict the free flow of information required for high productivity and this factor can only increase as the nature of work becomes more complex--until it will finally overwhelm all else. In the final analysis, it is the potential of the communist organization of the economy--to create a vastly higher productivity of labor--which will spell doom for the capitalist mode of production. Does this mean that communism is inevitable ? Well not necessarily. There could be a nuclear war or some disease that wipes out humanity. Or some large asteroid could be hurtling towards us even as we sleep peacefully in our beds (those of us who have beds). But other than this--yes, it is inevitable. And this idea is not original with me--but belongs to Karl Marx, who was the first to show that the class struggle between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie could only end in the final victory of the proletariat and the elimination of classes. Future Discussion ----------------- I would like readers to know that I am under considerable time pressure. Chapter 7 of "How to Build the Party of the Future" goes out tomorrow night and chapter 8 (which discusses the differences between the centralism that Lenin proposed in 1903 and the centralism that Lenin proposed, under extremely different conditions, in 1921) is not yet written. I have a week to put it together if I am to maintain my publication schedule and I must focus on this task. Once chapter 8 is complete (or chapters 8 and 9 if it turns out to be two chapters) I will be finished with "Axis I" (the theoretical axis) of the "POF" series and I may take a break for a month or so in order to go into a more discussion-oriented mode. I still have not replied to several interesting posts by Louis Proyect concerning the organizational nature of the kinds of communist organizations that are likely to emerge in the future. Nor have I laid out why the development of a struggle against reformism will be decisive for moving M-I to a level where it would be truely worthy of being called a Marxist forum. It has been interesting to deal at this length with questions about self-organization and complexity but I need to move on a bit and I hope that we can, together, advance our understanding of all of these topics a little bit at a time. Ben Seattle ----//-// 22 June 1997 ============================================================ Appendix A: Further information ============================================================ 1. The Self-Organizing Moneyless Economy (S.O.M.E.) Hypothesis is available (in recently shortened form--only 20,000 words) at: www.pix.org/some The original, longer, polemical version (also known as "Anti-Joseph" and weighing in at 95,000 words) is still available at the same location. 2. Books by Stuart A. Kaufmann "The Origins of Order--self-organization and selection in evolution" "At Home in the Universe" explores themes related to "Origins", but with more recent data and analysis, and geared to a more general audience. (Kaufmann is one of the pioneers of this field and is widely respected.) 3. Another really good book: "The Life Era--Cosmic Selection and Conscious Evolution" by Eric Chaisson Here is an excerpt from the book jacket: "Eric Chaisson--who daily probes the very furthest, and oldest, reaches of the Universe with a radiotelescope--is equally at home speaking in terms of millionths of a second or billions of years. And what he sees in the development of the Universe is constant change, which has fallen into two major era and the beginning of a third. "The first was the Energy Era, a brief era in cosmic terms, which started with the Big Bang. Immediately, some of this energy, as if cooled and expanded, transformed itself into matter, and the second era, the Matter Era, began. With further cooling and expansion of the Universe, matter gave birth to life, and within life to intelligence or consciousness, or the ability to think about thinking and to control one's environment. This is the beginning of the Life Era. But only the beginning. As Chaisson sees it, just as matter separated itself out from energy and life developed from matter, so consciousness, which is arising out of life by the same process of cosmic selection, may at some point separate itself out from life and become an autonomous entity... "... This may be the broadest look at the biggest picture, but it is also put in the simplist and most readable way ..." Chaisson also includes a short and interesting, if very technical, appendix "A Mathematical Guide to the Three Eras of Cosmic Evolution" in which he discusses "Free Energy Flux Densitites" (in units of ergs per second per gram). (Chaisson was in the news a few years ago exposing some of NASA's deceptions regarding the Hubble telescope. Chaisson's job is to select targets for the Hubble to examine.) ============================================================ Appendix B: Kevin Kelly's "Out of Control" ============================================================ [Kevin Kelly is not a scientist, as are Kaufmann and Chaisson. Kelly is a journalist. He is the editor of "Wired" magazine and before that was the editor of the "Whole Earth Catalog" I have included here both a widely reprinted excerpt called "The Nine Laws of God" and the table of contents of his book. Kelly's book, "Out of Control, can be found on the web at: http://www.absolutvodka.com/kelly/5-0.html My experience is that reading it from the web is in one way actually preferable to reading it in book form: the many links from the web page above are to the beginning of each section. Kelly's strongest writing tends to be at the beginning of these sections--so reading in this way will be more likely to take you to the best passages than opening pages at random looking for the best parts (ie: my normal way of digesting a long book). Another URL for Kelly's book is: "http://www.hotwired.com/Staff/kevin/oocontrolpress.html" Ben -- June 20, 1997] [The following is an excerpt from The Nine Laws of God, a chapter in OUT OF CONTROL: THE RISE OF NEO-BIOLOGICAL CIVILIZATION By Kevin Kelly -- June 1994] Out of nothing, nature makes something. How do you make something from nothing? From the frontiers of computer science, and the edges of biological research, and the odd corners of interdisciplinary experimentation, I have compiled The Nine Laws of God governing the incubation of somethings from nothing: 1. Distribute being 2. Control from the bottom up 3. Increasing returns 4. Grow by chunking 5. Maximize the fringes 6. Honor your errors 7. No optima; multiple goals 8. Seek persistent disequilibrium 9. Change changes itself These nine laws are the organizing principles that can be found operating in systems as diverse as biological evolution and SimCity. Of course I am not suggesting that they are the only laws needed to make something from nothing; but out of the many observations accumulating in the science of complexity, these principles are the broadest, crispest and most representative generalities. I believe that one can go pretty far as a god while sticking to these nine rules. 1. Distribute being. The spirit of a beehive, the behavior of an economy, the thinking a supercomputer, and the life in me is distributed over a multitude of smaller units (which themselves may be distributed). When the sum of the parts can add up to more than the parts, then that extra being (that something from nothing) is distributed among the parts. Whenever we find something from nothing, we find it arising from a field of many interacting smaller pieces. All the mysteries we find most interesting --life, intelligence, evolution --are found in the soil of large distributed systems. 2. Control from the bottom up. When everything is connected to everything in a distributed network, everything happens at once. When everything happens at once, wide and fast moving problems simply route around any central authority. Therefore overall governance must arise from the most humble interdependent acts done locally in parallel, and not from a central command. A mob can steer itself, and in the territory of rapid, massive, and heterogeneous change, only a mob can steer. To get something from nothing, control must rest at the bottom within simplicity. 3. Cultivate increasing returns. Each time you use an idea, a language or a skill you strengthen it, reinforce it, and make it more likely to be used again. That's known as positive feedback, or snowballing. Success breeds success. In the Gospels, this principle of social dynamics is known as "To those who have, more will be given." Anything which alters its environment to enhance increasing production of itself is playing the game of increasing returns. And all large, sustaining systems play the game. The law operates in economics, biology, computer science, and human psychology. Life on Earth alters Earth to begets more life. Confidence build confidence. Order generates more order. Them that has, gets. 4. Grow by chunking. The only way to make a complex system that works is to begin with an simple system that works. Attempts to instantly install highly complex organization --such as intelligence, or a market economy --without growing it, inevitably lead to failure. To assemble a prairie takes time --even if you have all the pieces. Time is needed to let each part test itself against all the others. Complexity is created, then, by assembling it incrementally from simple modules which can operate independently. 5. Maximize the fringes -- In heterogeneity is creation of the world. A uniform entity must adapt to the world by occasional large earth-shattering revolutions, one of which is sure to kill it. A diverse heterogeneous entity, on the other hand, can adapt to the world in thousand daily mini-revolutions, keeping it in a state of permanent, but never fatal, churning. Diversity favors remote borders, the outskirts, hidden corners, moments of chaos, and isolated clusters. In economic, ecological, evolutionary, and institutional models, a healthy fringe speeds adaptation, increases resilience, and is almost always the source of innovations. 6. Honor your errors -- A trick will only work for a while, until everyone else is doing it. To advance from the ordinary requires a new game, or a new territory. But the process of going outside the conventional method, game, or territory is indistinguishable from error. Even the most brilliant act of human genius, in the final analysis, is an act of trial and error. "To be an Error and to be Cast out is a part of God's Design," wrote the visionary poet William Blake. Error, whether random or deliberate, must become an integral part of any process of creation. Evolution can be thought of as systematic error management. 7. Pursue no optima; have multiple goals -- Simple machines can be efficient, but complex adaptive machinery cannot be. A complicated structure has many masters and none of them can be served exclusively. Rather than strive for optimization of any function, a large system can only survive by "satisficing" (making "good enough") a multitude of functions. For instance, an adaptive system must tradeoff between exploiting a known path of success (optimizing a current strategy), or diverting resources to exploring new paths (thereby wasting energy trying less efficient methods). So vast are the mingled drives in any complex entity that it is impossible to unravel the actual causes of its survival. Survival is a many-pointed goal. Most living organisms are so many-pointed they are blunt variations that happen to work, rather than precise renditions of proteins, genes, and organs. In creating something from nothing, forget elegance; if it works, it's beautiful. 8. Seek persistent disequilibrium -- Neither constancy nor relentless change will support a creation. A good creation, like good jazz, must balance the stable formula with frequent out-of-kilter notes. Equilibrium is death. Yet unless a system stabilizes to an equilibrium point, it is no better than an explosion, and just as soon dead. A Nothing, then, is both equilibrium and disequilibrium. A Something is persistent disequilibrium -- a continuous state of forever surfing on the edge between never stopping but never falling. Honing in on that liquid threshold is the still mysterious holy grail of creation and the quest of all amateur gods. 9. Change changes itself -- Change can be structured. This is what large complex systems do. They coordinate change. When extremely large systems are built up out of complicated systems, then each system begins to influence and ultimately change the organizations of other systems. That is, if the rules of the game are composed from the bottom up, then it is likely that interacting forces at the bottom level will alter the rules of the game as it progresses. Over time, the rules for change get changed themselves. Evolution --as used in everyday speech --is about how an entity is changed over time. Deeper evolution --as it might be formally defined --is about how the rules for changing entities over time changes over time. To get the most out of nothing, you need to have self-changing rules. These nine principles underpin the awesome workings of prairies, flamingoes, and cedar forests, eyeballs, natural selection in geological time, and the unfolding of a baby elephant from a tiny seed of elephant sperm and egg. These same principles of bio-logic are now being implanted in computer chips, electronic communication networks, robot modules, pharmaceutical searches, software design, and corporate management, in order that these artificial systems may overcome their own complexity. When the technos is enlivened by bios we get artifacts that can adapt, learn, and evolve. When our technology adapts, learns, and evolves then we will have a neo-biological civilization. ======================================================== TABLE OF CONTENTS -- Kevin Kelly's "Out of Control" ======================================================== THE MADE AND THE BORN Neo-biological civilization The triumph of the bio-logic Learning to surrender our creations HIVE MIND Bees do it: distributed governance The collective intelligence of a mob Asymmetrical invisible hands Decentralized remembering as an act of perception More is more than more, it's different Advantages and disadvantages of swarms The network is the icon of the 21st century MACHINES WITH AN ATTITUDE Entertaining machines with bodies Fast, cheap and out of control Getting smart from dumb things The virtues of nested hierarchies Using the real world to communicate No intelligence without bodies Mind/body black patch psychosis ASSEMBLING COMPLEXITY Biology: the future of machines Restoring a prairie with fire and oozy seeds Random paths to a stable ecosystem How to do everything at once The Humpty Dumpty challenge COEVOLUTION What color is a chameleon on a mirror? The unreasonable point of life Poised in the persistent state of almost falling Rocks are slow life Cooperation without friendship or foresight THE NATURAL FLUX Equilibrium is death What came first, stability or diversity? Ecosystems: between a superorganism and an identity workshop The origins of variation Life immortal, ineradicable Negentropy The fourth discontinuity: the circle of becoming EMERGENCE OF CONTROL In ancient Greece the first artificial self Maturing of mechanical selfhood The toilet: archetype of tautology Self-causing agencies CLOSED SYSTEMS Bottled life, sealed with clasp Mail-order Gaia Man breathes into algae, algae breathes into man The very big ecotechnic terrarium An experiment in sustained chaos Another synthetic ecosystem, like California POP GOES THE BIOSPHERE Co-pilots of the 100 million dollar glass ark Migrating to urban weed The deployment of intentional seasons A cyclotron for the life sciences The ultimate technology INDUSTRIAL ECOLOGY Pervasive round-the-clock plug in Invisible intelligence Bad-dog rooms vs. nice-dog rooms Programming a commonwealth Closed-loop manufacturing Technologies of adaptation NETWORK ECONOMICS Having your everything amputated Instead of crunching, connecting Factories of information Your job: managing error Connecting everything to everything E-MONEY Crypto-anarchy: encryption always wins The fax effect and the law of increasing returns Superdistribution Anything holding an electric charge will hold a fiscal charge Peer-to-peer finance with nanobucks Fear of underwire economies GOD GAMES Electronic godhood Theories with an interface A god descends into his polygonal creation The transmission of simulacra Memorex warfare Seamless distributed armies A 10,000 piece hyperreality The consensual ascii superorganism Letting go to win IN THE LIBRARY OF FORM An outing to the universal library The space of all possible pictures Travels in biomorph land Harnessing the mutator Sex in the library Breeding art masterpieces in three easy steps Tunnelling through randomness ARTIFICIAL EVOLUTION Tom Ray's electric-powered evolution machine What you can't engineer, evolution can Mindless acts performed in parallel Computational arms race Taming wild evolution Stupid scientists evolving smart molecules Death is the best teacher The algorithmic genius of ants The end of engineering's hegemony THE FUTURE OF CONTROL Cartoon physics in toy worlds Birthing a synthespian Robots without hard bodies The agents of ethnological architecture Imposing destiny upon free will Mickey Mouse rebooted after clobbering Donald Searching for co-control AN OPEN UNIVERSE To enlarge the space of being Primitives of visual possibilities How to program happy accidents All survive by hacking the rules The handy-dandy tool of evolution Hang-gliding into the game of life Life verbs Homesteading hyperlife territory THE STRUCTURE OF ORGANIZED CHANGE The revolution of daily evolution Bypassing the central dogma The difference, if any, between learning and evololution The evolution of evolution The explanation of everything POSTDARWINISM The incompleteness of Darwinian theory Natural selection is not enough Intersecting lines on the tree of life The premise of non-random mutations Even monsters follow rules When the abstract is embodied The essential clustering of life DNA can't code for everything An uncertain density of biological search space Mathematics of natural selection THE BUTTERFLY SLEEPS Order for free Net math: a counter-intuitive style of math Lap games, jets, and auto-catalytic sets A question worth asking Self-tuning vivisystems RISING FLOW A 4 billion year ponzi scheme What evolution wants Seven trends of hyper-evolution Coyote trickster self-evolver PREDICTION MACHINERY Brains that catch baseballs The flip side of chaos Positive myopia Making a fortune from the pockets of predictability Operation Internal Look, Ahead Varieties of prediction Change in the service of non-change Telling the future is what the systems are for The many problems with global models We are all steering WHOLES, HOLES, AND SPACES What ever happened to cybernetics? The holes in the web of scientific knowledge To be astonished by the trivial Hypertext: the end of authority A new thinking space THE NINE LAWS OF GOD How to make something from nothing Hijacking the universe --- from list marxism-international@lists.village.virginia.edu ---